"The first question that I always start with is what time is it in the system that we're in, right? If you're thinking about a curve that's rising up, are we at the very beginning and everything's fine and we're trying to figure things out? Are we kind of just past the peak and we have like a Houston, we have a problem, something's not good, but we're not sure whether or not we're in crisis. And then we have down the downside slope of that is the hot mess, right? Where everything is in collapse. At some point in the area of the peak is when we usually see alternatives start to emerge, right? They are something other than the way that it is in the dominant system. This is what we call the walkouts. These people are walking out of the dominant system because they wanna do something different. And if their nascent fragile efforts remain separate, nothing will happen because the dominant system will crush, absorb or co-opt these walkouts, these pioneers because the system wants to preserve itself. That's what a system does. Then if those pioneers get connected and they exchange information and learning, then their separate efforts can suddenly emerge as a powerful system that's capable of disrupting the old order and giving birth to something new. So the what time is it question, right? Is like, where are we? When you're looking at a system, like if we're in the everything's fine, the work to be done is to improve the system, to iterate, to streamline and to create efficiencies. Now, if we're in the tipped past the peak and we have a problem and all we're focusing on is streamlining, creating efficiencies, which is what most of us do, which is what most consulting is about, which is when somebody hires McKinsey or whoever, that's what they're doing. Then we're not actually tuning into what kind of a problem is actually happening. We're not paying attention to the perspective collapse. And then when we hit hot mess, we're still trying to do efficiencies and eliminating redundancies and cost cutting, which is way out of order for the strategy. It's the wrong strategy for where we are."